Conclusion!

 

“FOREORDINATION, n. This looks like an easy word to define, but when I consider that pious and learned theologians have spent long lives in explaining it, and written libraries to explain their explanations; when I remember the nations have been divided and bloody battles caused by the difference between foreordination and predestination, and that millions of treasure have been expended in the effort to prove and disprove its compatibility with freedom of the will and the efficacy of prayer, praise, and a religious life, –recalling these awful facts in the history of the word, I stand appalled before the mighty problem of its signification, abase my spiritual eyes, fearing to contemplate its portentous magnitude, reverently uncover and humbly refer it to His Eminence Cardinal Gibbons and His Grace Bishop Potter.”

Ambrose Bierce

Ok this is the big finale are we predestined or do we have Free will?

Well, I don’t know. I know this is not funny, but I truly don’t know! I was almost convinced of choosing predestination after researching the religious side. I read Thomas Pink and a little of Aristotle’s book and I become undecided. Imagine that! I even did some informal interviews with people just to get their opinion when sitting at the bar and decide to strike up a conversation about predestination over a glass of wine. (Well thats what I did), and it seems people are just as confused. My favorite bartender, Matt from Empires, said “hell no we are just a bunch of molecules in space and we have free will, predestination is…a bunch of shit that some religious lunatic came up with.” Well we know the rest of the saying. I even asked a few of my clients to get their point of views; one of them said “we have a mixture of both we (humans) are in charge of our destiny. We can change it at anytime.” This opinion led me to wonder: Are we really changing destiny or are we taking a detour and then coming back to where we left off?

A good friend of mine Alfredo Torres who I interviewed says, “if you choose not to make a choice, then you are forced to make a choice.” He also says “we cant have free will and predestination at the same time.” My tutor says the same thing. Torres says that there is a song by Rush that sings on free will and quotes the song.

The Catholics and the Calvinist share almost the exact same view on predestination. The two religions have only a few minor discrepancies. God chooses people, but no one knows really why and how the selections are made. We have the choice to listen or not. God doesn’t put anymore on us than we can handle. Now we humans also put ourselves in positions sometimes for reasons beyond our knowledge. I guess that would be free will.

It’s something like this, if Obama is meant to be the president of the United States then he will be, no matter what is thrown his way. Predestination is when you pick a problem and no matter how you intend to fix it, the outcome will still be the same. Free will is when you choose your destiny. So in conclusion it is the individual’s decision to believe in Predestination or Free will. You make the choice weather it right or wrong you will have to face the end once everything is said and done.

Critique IV

That which you call your soul or spirit is your consciousness, and that which you call ‘free will’ is your mind’s freedom to think or not, the only will you have, your only freedom, the choice that controls all the choices you make and determines your life and your character.

Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
US (Russian-born) novelist (1905 – 1982)

    Ok I bought this book by Thomas Pink it is called Free Will A very short Introduction, its about 130 pages long.  A short book indeed I reccomend that everyone reads this book very informative. Thomas Pink ask the question are we really in charge of our actions? Which he answer something like this. This question is not a new one it has been stirring around for centuries now, philisopical scholars from ancient greece to this day and age have had and are having many problems the word Free Will. Pink says that there is no stragiht forward answer. Pink reached way back when mentioned Aristotle the great Greek Philosopher, Aristotle takes the word Free will breaks it up and defines it.

Aristotle says that the Free coming from Freedom was for political useage. Pink tell us that Aristotle says we are in total control of how we act. Aristotle ”states eph hemin in Greek that our actions are up to us”.  The word Freedom has taken on various definitons as time changes. Pink talks “about freedom of action a freedom to do thinkgs or to refrain form doing them”. but then turns around and say that wants and feelings are not actions they lie outside our immediate control. It is not up to us on how we feel or want as it is up to us as to what actions we do. he also mentions there is a huge connection between freedom and action and it play a vital role in our lifes today because we exercise our feedom. Then pink goes on to say that freedom plays a part in our morality. We have a moral responsibiliy that people can be held accountable for how they live their lives.  To have morales is to have our standards which we have an obligation to up hold. Pink goes into futher detail on the problem at hand as he calls it. He even says taht we make the assumption on our action of freedom. He says that “we naturally assume that we our actions are determined to happen prior to causes out of our control. 

I dont know if this is a short intorduction or not but there was a lot of  going back and forth on weather we are free to make decsions on our own based on our morals our intelligence or plian old just be cause. I was almost sold on the idea that we are predestined but now I am back to the drawing board.

Works Cited Thomas Pink A Very Short Intorduciton

Critique III

We get new ideas from God every hour of our day when we put our trust in Him — but we have to follow that inspiration up with perspiration — we have to work to prove our faith. Remember that the bee that hangs around the hive never gets any honey.Albert E. Cliffe

 

  Well todays article is on Foreknowledge and predestinaiton it is written by L. Becker form Hollins College Virginia. Ok to be truley honest I did not get this article too well! Ms. Becker goes back and forth on God knows what everyone is doing even before they do it.  God even knew that before creating the world, the world would be going through the changes which it is still doing. From the begining Adam and Eve where Eve ate the apple and then handed the apple to Adam and he ate the apple to the world developing and he approaches Moses in a burning bush and tells Mosese to take his people to the promise land. To Send Jesus down to be birthed by an unwed Mary and so on and so on.

 God put us on this earth to go through trials and tribulations for we may not know the reason why at this time, but in the end it will be revealed to us. For if humans know what God has planned for them we might mess up the plan. It similar to telling a child you are going to be a doctor when the child is only seven years old, the child may not want this, the child may want to be a bum and since he has been given this knowledge he will do everything in his power to not be a doctor. The adult will do everything put people in way to help the child acheieve that goal but it is up to the child to take the first step and this is what God wants us to do take the first step. We can not blame God if we do not seek him first. We may not know why we do the things we do but it has a reason for being done.

  This is a question that will go on forever and ever I have only looked at it on the one side that was the religious side of it. Don’t get me wrong here yes bad things willand do happen, but if we dont take these bad experiences and learn from themand teach from them then how will we know? You see a child you know what that child is going to do and you let that child do it (whatever it is) just to see and then you sit the child down and talk with the child. We in a sense know what that child will do “because we have been there before” and we still let the child do it, so he feels that sense of free will but in the end the child does exaclty what we want the child to do and this is all God is trying to do with us. If we just listen I know it’s hard sometimes but listen we will hear him. God is always there he is not the going astray, it is us the humans that go astray. No matter what you are looking for it is right there you just have to look and listen carefully and you acheive what you want with the help of God.

 Works Cited L. Becker form Hollins College Virginia

Critique II

I desire not to desire, for my will is without value, since I am ignorant in any case. Therefore choose Thou for me what thou knowest to be best and do not put my perdition in what my autonomy and free choice prefer.Bayazid Al-Bistami

 

This post is about Free will and Predestination. I retrieved this article off the internet from the geneva rutgers.edu. This article discusses the difference between free will and predistination. It touches on the Calvinist and the Catholic side, but it also mentions other studies such as Pelagian who was a Monk form the fifth century that denied Original sin and St. Augustine who was philosopher and theologian. Arminius was a Calvinist till the day he had to defend his beliefs. His beliefs are ”God might not be the author of sin nor the man an automation of in the hads of God.”   

His teachings were a bit on the radical side. He siad that  

1. Death came from sin, not man’s physical nature.
2. Infants must be baptized to be cleansed from original sin.
3. Justifying grace covers past sins and helps avoid future sins.
4. The grace of Christ imparts strength and will to act out God’s commandments.
5. No good works can come without God’s grace.
6. We confess we are sinners because it is true, not from humility.
7. The saints ask for forgiveness for their own sins.
8. The saints also confess to be sinners because they are.
9. Children dying without baptism are excluded from both the Kingdom of heaven and eternal life.   After this Pelagius and his teaching disappeared from Italy for good. 

The study of Agustine who was a philosopher and theologian and he believed that original sin was not eating from the tree but of knowledge but the sex between Adam and Eve. Agustine thought sex was evil and it weakend the will of man. Boy he is one to talk he had a concubine for fifteen years.  This is jsut a bockround of the people mentioned in the article.

   According to this article we are dependent on God’s decision to save us. However we as humans tend to loose sight of this. We as humans make responsiple decisions and will be judged for them when we see God and he will deal with each and everyone of us at that time.  Predestinatio does not absolve us from human responsibility, but one could go as far as asking how is this so? Everything is according to his will in the beleiving world and the unbelieveing world.

It seems the more I read this article the more questions come up for instance: If God knows that someone is giong to sin and lets himl do it then God is responsible for this sin? The answer is no we as humans know right from wrong and we make these choices not God.  Calvin shows where God carries out his plan totally diffrent when dealing with people of faith in him and of those who don’t have faith in him. But just like I said even for the ones who don’t believe in God are worked upon in diffrent ways beyond our comprehension.

   Often times you hear of arguments of what we can’t hold people responsible for what they do when they are in thier own enviroment. The whole nature versus nurture thing. This is where the old question comes in at well if God already knows what we are going to do, then he is overall responsible for us, then has he forced us to sin ?? No, well at least in my opinion it is. It is the same thing as telling a child not to touch something, you know he is going to touch it but, because we are the adult we are responsible for our childs actions. This is the same thing God already knows but we are responsible to make the correct choice. We cant blame God for our wrong doings! Just to reinerate that God has put people in our paths to help us along the way.

Arminius’s idea was that as long as you could predict a person’s future then they were “being forced into thier backround ans it wasn’t free,” but when a person does something out of character they are considered to be “insane.” Although the idea of accountability is deminishing greatly or are incoherantly being applied.

In short we are responsible for what we do. Yes God is involved in everything that we do. God does not take sides or take actions to make the natural man reject him.

According to the Arminians there are two beiefs that differ form Calvinist beliefs. They are (1) God calls everyone, and (2) that we have the option to refuse grace.  Arminius goes on to say that grace and free will colabrate with each other. but in essence the collabration is a grace renewal. He aslo assumes that the grace can be resisted. “Thus God does not predestine some to destruction.” So if we are following Arminiansm we as humans determine who is saved and who is not, by our actions and how we respond to God’s grace. 

When you recieve grace from God your human will, will change and that the person will respond to God. Catholics clearly accept predestination but they believe that there is a fixed number of people that will be saved. God does not move man to either side menaing damnantion or salvation. He just leaves them alone.

  Works Cited ,Calvinist and Catholic geneva rutgers.edu

  

Critique I

   We are all bound to the throne of the Supreme Being by a flexible chain which restrains without enslaving us. The most wonderful aspect of the universal scheme of things is the action of free beings under divine guidance.

Joseph De Maistre1753-1821, French Diplomat, philosopher.

  According to the Calvinist Corner I have read Man is sinful from the begining and man has to desire God on his own free will. Once man has sought out God then and only then will God send people to work in that person’s life. God sends people to help guide and teach them into believeing.

   Man is automatically sinful from the  begining. According to serveral verses in the bible the true nature of man is evil, a slave to sin. So then the question is how can man want to desire God?  This is where Free will comes in. Predestination is the doctrine that God alone chooses (elects) who is saved.

  Now my interpetation on this particular article was yes God chooses people but no he does not have favorites. Now one might ask how can this be? Its easy,just its as if one is going for a team sport. The team captain picks who he wants on his team. Is this having favorites? No.

    According to the Catholic Encyclopedia predestination is a divine decree. Catholics believe that  coming from pious parents, good education and the providential guidence of a man’s external career, is a form of predestination. I have readin the Catholic Encyclopedia predestination is broken into several causes and they are the the efficient cause, (which is God) the instrumental cause (grace), and the final cause (God’s honor). I have found that the purest form of predestination is embodied through Calvinisim and Jansenism which was started by a Flemish Catholic theologian. Jansenism seperated the Catholic Churches.

   According to the Catholics those who “seek in the absolute will of God are logically forced to admit an efficacious grace.” There is a five step process of predestination the first step is the first grace of vocation. especially faith as the beginning the foundation and root of justfication.    The second one is to justifiy the accomplishments of the true graces.

   The third is justification itself as the beginning og the state of grace and love. 

     The fourth is the grace of a happy death, final perseverance. and last but not least is the fifth is the admission to external bliss. Predstination is a sublime mystery and appears not only from the depths of the eternal counsel. It cannot be fathomed, it is even externally visible in the inequality of the Divine choice. The Catholics do not want anybody to say that they are predestined. It is believed that that there are people that are predestined but no one know who! and it would be useless to try to figure out the who, what, when and where. The Catholics don’t want peoeple to say that they are predestined because it is irrational and unscriptural. The Catholic Encyclopedia bash the modern Protestant saying there is no election to grace.

 The last thing I am going to say about this article is this “Inscrutabilia sunt judicia Dei” ( the judgement of God are inscrutable).

Works Cited:

Catholic Encycopedia  Written by J. Phole.  Transcribed by Gary A. Mros

Calvinist Corner Copyrigt by Matthew J. Slick 1998-2006

Weblog III Reading Arguments

	We are all bound to the throne of the Supreme Being by a flexible chain which restrains without enslaving us. The most wonderful aspect of the universal scheme of things is the action of free beings under divine guidance.

Joseph De Maistre 1753-1821, French Diploment, Philosopher

 

In our assignment for this week we are to take an article and tear it apart. try to find what the authr is really trying to say. This is called Critical analysis then after we do this we are to summerize up the authors writhings and put our two cent in it.

 Now as we all know this writing is not my strongest point so if and when reading this you feel compelled to ask me about something please do I may have left something out or did not express what I was saying the right way.

My article was on God Vs. Science by David Van Biema, and in this article there is an excerpt of a 90 minute debate that was taped at the Time and Life magizine building with two scientists the first one being Professor Dawkins who does not believe there is a god and has the big bang theory going on. The other scientist is Dr. Collins he believes that with out God there would be no science. Now Prof. Dawkins has a book named “The God Delusion (Houghton Mifflin)” which has been on the New York Times best seller list for five weeks now at number 8.

“Prof. Dawkins has attacked faith philosophically and historically as well as scienticfically,” but he banks on the Darwinian theory. His explanation (well my exlpanaion of this article) is that Dawkins is saying there is no reall explanation on why the things are the way they are and believing in god is living under false pretenses. That when there is something that is too difficult to explain that we should assume that God had did it.  Also he says that we are not the only universe out here that we are among the many universes and we might not be the fine tuned universe. Dawkins goes as far as to say that all mother and fathers who go around and “call on God” are cop outs. But he also says that there is something that is way beyaond our understanding but to say that God had anything to do with this is just ludicris. Dawkins believes that good things happen and bad things happen and that is it nothing else. When we question to our morality does this mean it this has to come from religion? ” Humans have a moral responsibility because they are capable of reasoning. Dawkins says that he is not close minded, but what I read from this article I would have to say that he is very closed minded to even fancy the idea of there being no God.

 

 Now Dr. Collins on the other had rebukes the Idea of Dawkins. Dr. Collins converted from an athesit to a Christian at the age of 27 has a better understanding of God. Maybe it is because his study is in genetics.

 Dr. Collins say that without the God there would be no science. He also say they compliment each other, but God’s exsitence goes beyond the comprehension of science. He also say we are to seek God’s plan out on our own without being forced. This is all a part of God’s plan. If he were to show what his purpose was there would be no reason to seek him. If we were to imagine the universe after the Big Bang theory with out putting God in it how do you explain humans? Now if you put the creator (God)then possibly see how humans were developed. Dr. Collins say that we should keep it simple that God is evident, and that the multiverse theory is a little hard to believe. Dr. Collins  says “that God is the

answer to all of those “How must it have come to be” questions.

Time magizine asks Dr. Collins on his view of the book of Genesis. Dr. Collins notes that there are a lot of believers who have translated the the first two chapters of Genesis. The translations were taken very literal and still to this day no one reallys know what those chapters mean. The bible was never intended to be a science book. The Bible is book of parables put together by a bunch of scholars. There is no time line to go by, all we can do is take an educated guess at what happened in this time. Dr. Collins even says to Prof. Dawkins that the common non believer sometimes come across as stuck up and to claim faith is somewhat idiotatic.

Dr. Collins profeses that the Christ is divine and the Reserrection just makes sense. Dr. Collins goes on futher to say that “Faith is not the opposite of reason” and no matter how much education you have or how long of a believer you have been, no one  can ever embrace the principle completely.

So to conclude this subject Dr. Collins explains that he has questions of the whys not the hows, and that scienc cant always answer these questions.  And he finds the answers more in a spiritual way than the common way. But this does not by any chance affect his way of thinking as a scientist.

 Now my take on this debate was very informative. I am prone to go with Dr. Collins though being a christian and doind some Bible studying on my own I really cant say that God does not exist. Like I said earlier in the paragraph, the Bible is another way of teaching us what not to do and how to treat people. How to be a better person. It is by no means a science book like the non believing scientist want to make it out to be. I have read and watched documentaries that have tried to discredit God and have not been able to. There are too many clues that are around to say that he doesn’t exist. We just need to take our time and slow down and then we will see the wonders that God has for us. No one can really explain which came first the chicken or the egg, and this is the same question does God really exist or doesnt he?

  Works Cited God Vs. Science by David Van Biema

Weblog InquiryII

Are we Predestined or do we have free will?

There are three other words that deal with predestination and they are Freewill, Fate and Destiny. I looked up these words and the definitions go as follows

Freewill- The ability or discretion to choose. 2. The power to make choices that are unconstrained.

Fate- The supposed force or power that determines events. 2 Final result: outcome.3 Unfavorable destiny:doom 4 Fates GK and Roman Myth Three goddesses Clotho, Lachesis and Atrophos who control human destiny.

Destiny- Ones inevitable fate 2. a predetermined course of events 3 the power or agency thought to predetermine events.

 Gen 21:12 But God said to him, “Do not be so distressed about the boy and your maidservant. Listen to whatever Sarah tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring  will be reckoned. 

Ephesains 1:11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.

From the beginning of time it is written that we are already planned and just waiting to be

born. Our lives already planned out. 

According to Greek Mythology, There are three ladies that control our fate. The first one is Klotho which name is meant Spinner, she spins the thread of life. The other lady is Lakhesis, her name means the ‘Apportioner of lots’  which means she measures the thread of life you get. and the last lady is Atropos (or Asia) and her name means she who cannot be turned, cut the thread of life.

I have seen many families were two siblings from the same household grew up the same way have different lifestyles; for instance two sisters in the same house living together till at-least 16 years of age and one moves away completes high school and the other doesn’t do any of this. One goes off and joins the military the other sister stays back and gets married and has 6 kids! The other sister has one child and is going to school to better her life.Where the other sister is still married and staying at home. How is it that the two sisters are so different coming from the same household? Was one protected by God and the other not protected. If so how could that be? Or is it that one changed her destiny, can one change thier destiny? They both had the same opportunity but they both chose different lifestyles. Freewill is a conscience decsion that a person is set on making wether we make the decision on our own or it is guided, we can change our paths but it doesn’t matter how much we try to change our path we still in the end, go right back to where we started from!  Well I guess if we look at this in a religious stance we can say it is predestination but if we look at this in a worldly way this would be fate, but even with fate  can it be changed?

Works Cited  KJV Bible

Weblog Inquiry 1

I believe that people dont slow down and miss out on alot.

I believe that society has too much say on our lives today.

I believe that the government is not for the little man.

I believe that justice is has a way of revealing itself.

I believe that science is not explored enough.

I believe that reality is what you make ot.

I believe that life is full of color.

I believe that happiness is a way of life.

I believe that goodness is in everyone.

I believe that death should be celebrated not morned.

I believe that God has a plan for us but he does not give it to us too soon, because if he did we would blow it.

Part II

I BELIEVE THAT GOODNESS IS EXISTS IN ALL PEOPLE

 

If you look at the cartoons of the early days, the Smurfs just to name  one.  No matter how many times Gargamel tried to destroy the Smurfs he couldn’t.  Even the cartoons of today Tom and Jerry; no matter how many times Tom has caught Jerry he always let Jerry go. In the world we live in today there are many people who have experienced bad things and still they keep on pressing for bigger and better things. There are a lot of people who use their bad and turn it into good to let other people learn from them. In the bible it Psa 25:7 says Remember not the sins of my youth, nor my transgressions: according to thy mercy remember thou me for thy goodness‘ sake, O Lord In other words remeber me for my good deeds and not what I did wrong. Goodness defined as the state of being good, morale excellence and virtue, kindly feeling and kindness and generosity. In essence all the things that people have been through they still seem to smile and lend a helping hand.

 

 

Opposing my belief here is saying that we start out as being evil and there is no good in the world. Good is a learned behavior not something that comes natural.

I believe there is Goodness in everyone!

I BELIEVE THAT GOODNESS IS EXISTS IN ALL PEOPLE

If you look at the cartoons of the early days, the Smurfs just to name  one.  No matter how many times Gargamel tried to destroy the Smurfs he couldn’t.  Even the cartoons of today Tom and Jerry; no matter how many times Tom has caught Jerry he always let Jerry go. In the world we live in today there are many people who have experienced bad things and still they keep on pressing for bigger and better things. There are a lot of people who use their bad and turn it into good to let other people learn from them. In the bible it Psa 25:7 says Remember not the sins of my youth, nor my transgressions: according to thy mercy remember thou me for thy goodness‘ sake, O Lord In other words remeber me for my good deeds and not what I did wrong. Goodness defined as the state of being good, morale excellence and virtue, kindly feeling and kindness and generosity. In essence all the things that people have been through they still seem to smile and lend a helping hand.